Author Topic: Nissan 200sx s13 ECU controlled cluster, will it work?  (Read 36385 times)

perkabrod

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Nissan 200sx s13 ECU controlled cluster, will it work?
« on: March 04, 2012, 07:37:52 pm »
I've already bought 2x rev burners but I haven't bought a cluster yet, though I'm in contact with a guy selling 200sx S13 cluster.
However, he said it hooks to a ECU and not to Coils. I don't really know what that means but I'd like to hear your experienced opinion.

I want to control rev meter and speedometer "only"

questerymj

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Re: Nissan 200sx s13 ECU controlled cluster, will it work?
« Reply #1 on: March 05, 2012, 05:59:56 am »
Hello mate,

I got a Nissan R34 GTR cluster and it connect to a ECU too. I guess it's similar to your S-13 cluster.

If your speedo is not connect to a wire ( with a big tube in back of it) it's possible to use it with rev burners.

I'd ordered rev burner and waiting for it to arrive to test. I will post my result when I done it.

Before this you should try to find the repair manual of S-13 and find out the pin that provide 12v+, GND and signal input of speed and rev meter. If my test is successful, you will just need to connect these pin to revburner.


perkabrod

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Re: Nissan 200sx s13 ECU controlled cluster, will it work?
« Reply #2 on: March 05, 2012, 09:28:35 am »
I haven't bought a S13 cluster yet because I'm not sure if it will work. But here is except from the service manual (200SX S13)







Does that mean anything to anyone?  :D
« Last Edit: March 05, 2012, 09:43:27 am by perkabrod »

questerymj

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Re: Nissan 200sx s13 ECU controlled cluster, will it work?
« Reply #3 on: March 05, 2012, 10:49:32 am »
ehh...from me it looks like the 12V+ are pin 24 and GND are pin 28...or oppositing.

Signal of tacho should be 19, not sure which one is signal of electronic speed meter (6, 7 12 and 13).

You can see this thread and try to find more detail in the service manual. Wish other smart guys can give you better advice.:D

http://www.symprojects.com/forum/index.php?topic=442.0

perkabrod

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Re: Nissan 200sx s13 ECU controlled cluster, will it work?
« Reply #4 on: March 16, 2012, 08:42:14 pm »
Okay... well, here it is. Looks like nothing else I've seen.
If anybody knows how to do it then I will be most grateful  :-*

Don't forget that service manual photos are uploaded earlier in this thread

Image link:
http://dreamfield.dyndns.org/~eric/revburner/s13_cluster_01.jpg

Embedded:


If nothing is possible I'll guess I'll just buy a type R meter and some speedometer and try to retrofit it into the dash I already got... :(
« Last Edit: March 16, 2012, 09:13:00 pm by perkabrod »

questerymj

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Re: Nissan 200sx s13 ECU controlled cluster, will it work?
« Reply #5 on: March 17, 2012, 03:41:05 am »
Hello mate,

I'd found a meter scheme of S15 in japanese site:


In fact I can't find enough information in the 2 pics you posted. I see all meters share (24) and (28) so they must be +12V and GND, ut don't know which one is which. tachometer singal is 19 and I don't know which one is signal in 6 wires of speedo meter. could you try to find a similar one like I posted in your S13 manual?

I assume your cluster use a meter control unit too like R34/S15. All signal to meters are control by it, so we need to power it and send signals from rev burner to it and let it drive the meters. I'm not sure connect wires to meter directly is safe.

In the pics I posted you should notice 4 connectors, (12) is ign(+12V) and 9 is earth(GND), (14) is speedo and (15) is rev counter, I can say just connect these 4 wire to make it work with S15 cluster.
Please try to find the same connectors in S13 manual, or try to send it to me to check.

perkabrod

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Re: Nissan 200sx s13 ECU controlled cluster, will it work?
« Reply #6 on: March 17, 2012, 03:53:13 am »
Clock is 4:47 in the night (girlfriend is away travelling this weekend hence me still not in bed lol)
Anyway. I've got most of it sorted out. Appreciate your help. I'm too tired to keep my eyes open but I'll post first thing when I wake up, I'm 90% done with a photoshop sketch showing all my findings and stuff I've found on the net...

I've located gauge illumination, battery, ignition, tachometer input signal (WEEEHO!) but there are 2 connections for the speedometer and I will have to sleep before I do further testing on what is what...
On one of the still unknown speedometer pins it says "2P" and on the other "Japanese letters then +" but + could be Japanese letter too :P

I will ask my japanese instagram followers about the japanese text and the 2P should be googable. I found the rest on google like ATM = tachometer input signal but that forum I was on didn't mention "2P"...

Good night!

questerymj

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Re: Nissan 200sx s13 ECU controlled cluster, will it work?
« Reply #7 on: March 17, 2012, 04:07:53 am »
A good news. I just found a excel file from a japanese site that talking about how to install a S15 cluster to S13. There are all connectors of S13 described.

All you need to use are:

(3)=IGN(+12V)
(28)=GND
(18)=tachometer
(7)=speedo

Try it please.:)

perkabrod

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Re: Nissan 200sx s13 ECU controlled cluster, will it work?
« Reply #8 on: March 17, 2012, 04:12:13 am »
Where is the thumbs up icon when you need it (Y)
:D

Man, I need to sleep but so eager to get this to work, feels like a 7 year old on christmas haha. Will take a few hours sleep and dig in. But if that works then everything should be ready for a first hookup tomorrow.
By the way, do you know if I can use only 1 power supply for tach, speedometer and gauge lights? I have 2 of those symprojects offered just in case...

questerymj

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Re: Nissan 200sx s13 ECU controlled cluster, will it work?
« Reply #9 on: March 17, 2012, 04:19:37 am »
Yes you can, you only need to use 1 rev burner to power the ECU and it will supply the power of all meter. You just need to connect signal wires of tacho/speedo etc.

And for gauge lights, I didn't try all (ABS indicator is light in my cluster) but I think yes if your adapter supply enough currents to ECU. Too few lights can be simulated with racing games anyway...

I plan to change A/T lights (N/1/2/P etc) into MT 1-6 indicators, but they share negative in R34 cluster but Pro shift share positive...still think about how do do this now.

questerymj

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Re: Nissan 200sx s13 ECU controlled cluster, will it work?
« Reply #10 on: March 17, 2012, 04:30:49 am »
>meter pins it says "2P" and on the other "Japanese letters then +" but + could be Japanese letter too Tongue

2P means 2 pulse, S15 use 4 pulse meter but have a 2 pluse outout, and S13 use 2 pulse. Not sure if this effect the out of rev burner.

perkabrod

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Re: Nissan 200sx s13 ECU controlled cluster, will it work?
« Reply #11 on: March 17, 2012, 02:13:23 pm »
Here we go:

Gonna reboot computer and start off connecting +12V to ignition and try to get tachometer to work, if succesful I'll give the speedometer a try.

I have a question though, and that is related to getting the CLOCK and LAMPS to work.
Look at the bottom of the picture and you see what my plan to do is.
I also need to know if 12V@1.0A is enough to power GAUGES, CLOCK and LAMP BULBS.

Hope this image can help anyone else.. Well, now I "just" need to see if it works... might not be compatible with revburner :(


To be continued

questerymj

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Re: Nissan 200sx s13 ECU controlled cluster, will it work?
« Reply #12 on: March 17, 2012, 03:05:13 pm »
My advice is: I'm not sure, you must check the manual by yourself.

The clocks should be self-powered because I guess it's part of ECUs like the odo meter in my R34 cluster. You can try power the ECU first and see if the clock go live.

In my experience, ECU will power all meter without you give them +12V, but some lamps need to fill some condition to light.

For a example, if connector X have +5V current supply, lamp Y will light. I'm not sure these lamps need more power, you need to test them by yourself...with certain risks.

And for most lamps that use removable bulbs, I will suggest you remove them and replacement by some LEDs that controled directly by Pro shift or other control cards. This make the work more easily because you don't need to mess with ECUs.

perkabrod

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Re: Nissan 200sx s13 ECU controlled cluster, will it work?
« Reply #13 on: March 17, 2012, 11:13:37 pm »
Okay... tachometer works flawlessly but speedometer looks dead. Haven't gotten it to react on anything. I've tried both the official driver and the custom made that was posted here recently...

I also tried using the board I used for tachometer but loaded the speedo firmware on it and it didn't work either.

So, what to do? Basically everything's been tested and it comes down to this:
1. What so special with a 2 pulse signal as this model has?
2. As simple as a broken speedometer.. though the seller insisted it worked

SOMETHING REALLY WORTH mentioning though, is that when cluster has power. The speedometer needle has resistance to it while you try to move it with your finger... sort of like a springy feel and bounces back to 0km/h when you release it. Without power it "flows" slowly back to 0km/h. So I guess it's getting power at least. Does any of the devs have any clue? Is it possible that there's some kind of highly mismatch on the speedometers calibration or something as easy as that? I notice that when you drag the needle to around 170 km/h (around 2'o clock of the speedometer scale) the needle jumpes to 240km/h instead of back to 0km/h

I will look more at the service manual pics posted above in this thread and see if there's something I could have missed.
Any advice are HIGHLY appreciated. Enough of this for tonight, time to enjoy looking at the tachometer while perfecting rev match downshifts  8)

EDIT: Also worth mentioning is that I tried this hooking up to the 2P (2 pulse) and not the VSS speed sensor:
http://dreamfield.dyndns.org/~eric/revburner/s13_cluster_02.jpg
« Last Edit: March 17, 2012, 11:32:33 pm by perkabrod »

perkabrod

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Re: Nissan 200sx s13 ECU controlled cluster, will it work?
« Reply #14 on: March 18, 2012, 07:59:04 pm »
Maybe this can be of some help:

Full thread:
http://zilvia.net/f/tech-talk/186792-wiring-180sx-kouki-type-x-cluster-help.html
and
http://forums.nicoclub.com/kouki-type-x-cluster-wiring-help-t329088.html

Many people say that when you swap cluster on Nissan S13 or S14 it's very likely the speedometer will say show a doubled speed or half... however I get nothing, so either I need to ground the VSS or something in order for the speedometer to read the revburner signal coming into the "2 Pulse" input of the speedometer...

Or, could be that the wave the revburner outputs is not what the S13 cluster wants? Here I found something that might give answers:
http://zilvia.net/f/tech-talk/164351-s15-cluster-sig-converter.html

Quote from link above:
"-Signal conditioning-

IC3 and R8 are used to form the 50% duty cycle square wave. IC3 is a dual J/K
flip flop so the output will change its state once per pulse and dividing the
primary output freq by 2. This is needed because the output pulse width from the LM331
is too small.

Output here should be 12.5hz/mph


-ECU speed signal-

I did not put this part in because i dont need it and i dont care about it.
But if you want to make it you can. It will be the same as the Voltage to frequency converter primary
section except for different values for R9 and R10. The output will be fed into the second half of IC3
(remember its a DUAL j/k ff).
The output of IC3B will need to be 0.5hz/mph (still cant figure out why the ECU would want such a low resolution)
The input of this whole stage would be fed from the R3 and R2 junction."



Or maybe one of these could help me?




Could it be as simple as having the revburner generating a Nissan S13 wave? Is the revburner open source?
Man I need to get this going so I can get myself the Pro Shift and button box... I'm glad this is the first part I got into towards my sim building, because it seems this will be the hardest problem I'll encounter :D

UPDATE:
This is my current setup (tacho works, speedo doesn't):

Revburner#1 = 12V hooked to PCB, + and - powers cluster (ignition and ground), signal goes to TAM on Nissan S13 and makes the tachometer move. Works flawlessly! :)
Revburner#2 = no 12V on the PCB, ONLY 1 cable, the signal cable leaves the PCB and hooks up to the 2P (2 pulse) bolt on the speedometer

Question: For Revburner #2, does that really send out a 12V square wave or do I need to bridge the + and - of the speedometer to Revburner#1 which has 12V adapter hooked to its PCB


UPDATE #2
Tried to hook up only speedometer PCB with 12V power and it made no difference :(
« Last Edit: March 18, 2012, 09:11:29 pm by perkabrod »

 

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