Nissan 200sx s13 ECU controlled cluster, will it work?

[questerymj]

Hello mate,

I'd make a little search on net and find the S13 speedo is a fairly special one.

There are 2 type of speedo meter in S13 series, Digital and analog (Your cluster looks like analog type). The speedo is eay to damage and the only way is to replacement it with a aftermarket one etc...

For the current condition, I think you can try to find out what does conector [6] and [12] are used for and test them. Connector [7] are used for S15 cluster to S13 only and could be not compatible to rev burner. There must be a traditional singal input connectors...

I will check that excel file again when I back home. Not sure if [6] and [12] are speed signal related although...

[perkabrod]

Why did I have to get me a S13 cluster...

It's true what you say, every forum I've visited it's always "S13 is a little tricky".
I suggested an improvement to symprojects, or I haven't yet. But I'll post a thread about it in a second so check it out.

[perkabrod]

Maybe these notes I made when looking in the service manual helps. I'll upload more service manual pics in a little while...

S13 CLUSTER SPEEDOMETER
Connects to cluster with 5 bolts:

6 : VSS (Vehicle Speed Sensor)
This is the other cable that hooks to the wheel sensor, I guess it is the + side of the VSS sensor, pretty sure it's a sine AC signal?

7 : 2P (2 pulse signal from ECU?)

12 : GND Common ground for cluster except blinkers indicators.
The VSS (Vehicle Speed Sensor) is grounded here, read about pin 6 too

24 : IGN (+12V)

13 : 10K (Goes to differential oil cooler relay 1)

[Cristiano]

Question: For Revburner #2, does that really send out a 12V square wave or do I need to bridge the + and - of the speedometer to Revburner#1 which has 12V adapter hooked to its PCB[/color]

The 2nd rev burner needs power too but don't plug in a second power supply. Instead connect the + and - terminals of the second rev burner to the + and - terminal of the first rev burner (which is connected to the power supply)

[perkabrod]

To put an end to all this research I'm going to wrap this thread up and say that I'll get me some cheap tachometer and try to fit it in place of the speedometer (a project worth it's own thread lol)...

I think I finally found what an answer that I didn't want to read, yet, I had started to think that's how the S13 speedo works:
"I just looked at the s13 FSM and it shows the speed sensor going directly to the gauge cluster."

Also read that the 2 pulse signal that comes from ECU into the speedo is just a speed limiter, whatever that means. There's also some kind of switch that triggers at above 20km/h... man I'm dizzy researching.

If that is true and you have a look at the pinout notes I've written above.. That means the S13 speedo most probably wants a AC sine wave, FSM mentions pretty low voltage in the up to 1V range. VSS has 2 cables, one for ground and one for signal, but it's AC so I guess it doesn't matter if they're swapped. The VSS sensor is just some kind of HAL (or whatever it is called, those magnetic sensors) rotating and putting out a passive signal to the speedo.

Thanks for all the help and sorry to say I give up. As long as I the speedo going in my cluster I don't care if it's a type-r tach motor instead of the genuine nissan one
I'll go get me a tachometer and post pictures of the disassembly and speedo background fitting, as well as fitting it into the cluster. Bye for now.

[questerymj]

Goodluck mate! Looking forward to hear good news from you:)

[perkabrod]

I can't f**king believe it! I got my tachometer today, one of these:
http://www.realcar.se/presta/product.php?id_product=17513

And guess what? I doesn't work. Light works though, but not the needle.
I'm gonna return it and get a type-r, anyone know a type-r confirmed to work? Plug & Play

[perkabrod]

I got an answer on youtube about nissan cluster that I asked about a few days ago:

His answer:
"Hi, i connect the 5V output of the controller chip with a cap and a resistor to gnd. the you get +2.5V to -2.5V AC signal ! look on my wiki, there ist the wiring picture. bye dirk"
However he is not using the revburner, he's a DIY guy:


Any symprojects experts here that could tell if it would be possible to use the revburner S1 signal and somehow get me the AC signal I need? I'd gladly donate if you know a way.. would be sweet to not have to fiddle with fitting the nissan needle and background to a type-r tachometer too

"The type of signal generated by the Rev Burner is a square wave at 12V, whose frequency increases with the speed."

UPDATE:
I did my best on google and as far as I understand a pulse signal... I guess the square wave 12V that the revburner outputs is a 0VDC to 12VDC square wave signal, it has a idle and "on", idle on 0V and "on" at 12V, hence the pulse name I guess?

 I tried LTSpice IV which I haven't used in years
Hooked up the same components like used in schematic above, but I also needed an extra resistor to be able to measure it, I guess it just act as a load?
My electronics skills are VERY noob like. But here's what I got:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MQDsqF-2O0

However, when pulse frequency change, the sine wave loose it's shape, not that there really was a sine wave in the video below, but most important question. Will it work to get my speedo going? At least it's close to a AC signal with zero DC offset

Since I'm novice when it comes down to this, I appreciate any input. Down want to start a fire...

[perkabrod]

Anyone think this unit could solve ALL speedometers problems? As long as the speedo is a electric type speedo.

http://www.dakotadigital.com/index.cfm/page/ptype=product/product_id=126/category_id=287/home_id=59/mode=prod/prd126.htm

Consider to get one and try...
questerymj, if you still have max speed issue I guess it would help you too.

[perkabrod]

Just been in contact with Dakota.
They said there product could convert square to sine. I then asked if they are S13 fans themselves and know how its speedo works and I just got this mail:

"Surprisingly, we do have a bit of information on the ’86-92 240SX speedometer: Speedo responded only to AC sine wave input. J"

So, I'll order this unit right away and let you know my findings  

[perkabrod]

Devs, is it possible to do a speedo sine wave firmware or is the rev burner IC's only capable of square waves?

[Cristiano]

Devs, is it possible to do a speedo sine wave firmware or is the rev burner IC's only capable of square waves?

Hello.
Sorry the rev burner only outputs a square wave and I am not aware of any simple way to convert it to a sine signal.

Regards
Cristiano

[perkabrod]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MpSLtbnGVYM

[questerymj]

Congratulation!!!!!

Mind to post out how do you finally made it work for other mates? 

[perkabrod]

Solution, it was Dirk who took some time to help me. All credits to him!
http://www.youtube.com/user/elektronikjack
http://www.x-simulator.de/wiki/Tacho_Controller_by_Elektronikjack

Here's his schematic:


And here's a sketch I did in Photoshop. This is how I hooked it up:


And finally, though not quite the same resistor values. Here's a simulation I ran in LTSpice that shows what it does:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MQDsqF-2O0